Forum de discussions autour de Black Sabbath
 
AccueilPortailFAQS'enregistrerConnexion

Partagez | 
 

 Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?

Aller en bas 
Aller à la page : Précédent  1 ... 9 ... 14, 15, 16
AuteurMessage
Phil
Admin
avatar

Nombre de messages : 82398
Age : 56
Localisation : 9 cube
Date d'inscription : 30/05/2007

MessageSujet: Re: Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?   Lun 23 Juil 2018, 09:48

Revenir en haut Aller en bas
http://black-sabbath.1fr1.net
Jean-Louis
Master Of Reality
avatar

Nombre de messages : 11112
Age : 66
Localisation : Bordeaux
Date d'inscription : 07/04/2010

MessageSujet: Re: Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?   Mar 24 Juil 2018, 16:21





A priori, la dernière interprétation live de "Killing Yourself to Live".
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Phil
Admin
avatar

Nombre de messages : 82398
Age : 56
Localisation : 9 cube
Date d'inscription : 30/05/2007

MessageSujet: Re: Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?   Mar 24 Juil 2018, 16:26

Audience ?
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
http://black-sabbath.1fr1.net
Jean-Louis
Master Of Reality
avatar

Nombre de messages : 11112
Age : 66
Localisation : Bordeaux
Date d'inscription : 07/04/2010

MessageSujet: Re: Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?   Mar 24 Juil 2018, 17:15

Yep, bon / très bon
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Phil
Admin
avatar

Nombre de messages : 82398
Age : 56
Localisation : 9 cube
Date d'inscription : 30/05/2007

MessageSujet: Re: Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?   Mer 25 Juil 2018, 14:25


LP
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
http://black-sabbath.1fr1.net
JC
Sweet Leaf
avatar

Nombre de messages : 667
Age : 104
Localisation : 92
Date d'inscription : 08/06/2007

MessageSujet: Re: Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?   Jeu 26 Juil 2018, 06:46

Past Lives.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Phil
Admin
avatar

Nombre de messages : 82398
Age : 56
Localisation : 9 cube
Date d'inscription : 30/05/2007

MessageSujet: Re: Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?   Jeu 26 Juil 2018, 07:22

JC a écrit:
Past Lives.

Grandiose !!! cheers cheers cheers
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
http://black-sabbath.1fr1.net
JC
Sweet Leaf
avatar

Nombre de messages : 667
Age : 104
Localisation : 92
Date d'inscription : 08/06/2007

MessageSujet: Re: Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?   Ven 27 Juil 2018, 10:12

Master of reality. Cette chaleur estivale est idéale pour revisiter les grands classiques plombés de 1970 à 1978.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Phil
Admin
avatar

Nombre de messages : 82398
Age : 56
Localisation : 9 cube
Date d'inscription : 30/05/2007

MessageSujet: Re: Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?   Ven 27 Juil 2018, 11:37

JC a écrit:
Master of reality. Cette chaleur estivale est idéale pour revisiter les grands classiques plombés de 1970 à 1978.

C'est vrai qu'à ce niveau-là, il n'y a pas mieux. Laughing
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
http://black-sabbath.1fr1.net
Jean-Louis
Master Of Reality
avatar

Nombre de messages : 11112
Age : 66
Localisation : Bordeaux
Date d'inscription : 07/04/2010

MessageSujet: Re: Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?   Ven 27 Juil 2018, 11:46

Phil a écrit:
JC a écrit:
Master of reality. Cette chaleur estivale est idéale pour revisiter les grands classiques plombés de 1970 à 1978.

C'est vrai qu'à ce niveau-là, il n'y a pas mieux. Laughing

Ah bon ? Tiens tiens, je n'y avais pas pensé ... Laughing lol!
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Jean-Louis
Master Of Reality
avatar

Nombre de messages : 11112
Age : 66
Localisation : Bordeaux
Date d'inscription : 07/04/2010

MessageSujet: Re: Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?   Mar 07 Aoû 2018, 17:10



Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Jean-Louis
Master Of Reality
avatar

Nombre de messages : 11112
Age : 66
Localisation : Bordeaux
Date d'inscription : 07/04/2010

MessageSujet: Re: Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?   Jeu 09 Aoû 2018, 09:46



Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Jean-Louis
Master Of Reality
avatar

Nombre de messages : 11112
Age : 66
Localisation : Bordeaux
Date d'inscription : 07/04/2010

MessageSujet: Re: Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?   Jeu 09 Aoû 2018, 14:55




Je viens de passer l'après midi à faire du classement de boots du Sab des années 80 ... ça doit faire 20 ou 30 fois que j'écoute Ronnie faire ses "arrangements" sur le titre "Black Sabbath" ! Là, c'est l'overdose ... Laughing
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Phil
Admin
avatar

Nombre de messages : 82398
Age : 56
Localisation : 9 cube
Date d'inscription : 30/05/2007

MessageSujet: Re: Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?   Ven 24 Aoû 2018, 08:15

Jean-Louis a écrit:



J'ai celui du 15 avec ce visuel :



Revenir en haut Aller en bas
http://black-sabbath.1fr1.net
Jean-Louis
Master Of Reality
avatar

Nombre de messages : 11112
Age : 66
Localisation : Bordeaux
Date d'inscription : 07/04/2010

MessageSujet: Re: Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?   Ven 24 Aoû 2018, 09:36

Oui, je l'ai aussi. J'avais d'ailleurs les deux dates en boots audio séparés, ainsi qu'en DVD.

Ce "Costa Mesa 1992" est sorti récemment, vu ici :
https://purplehippies.com/2018/04/17/black-sabbath-1992-11-1415-costa-mesa-1992-zodiac/
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Phil
Admin
avatar

Nombre de messages : 82398
Age : 56
Localisation : 9 cube
Date d'inscription : 30/05/2007

MessageSujet: Re: Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?   Lun 27 Aoû 2018, 07:47





Bonne audience. C'est très bon, c'est très bien fait mais bon, on est à des années-lumière du Sab des débuts. Logique.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
http://black-sabbath.1fr1.net
Jean-Louis
Master Of Reality
avatar

Nombre de messages : 11112
Age : 66
Localisation : Bordeaux
Date d'inscription : 07/04/2010

MessageSujet: Re: Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?   Lun 27 Aoû 2018, 09:12

Phil a écrit:




Bonne audience. C'est très bon, c'est très bien fait mais bon, on est à des années-lumière du Sab des débuts. Logique.

Il est très bon ce boot même si du Sab, il n'y a plus que Tony Iommi ... mais bon, j'aime bien Tony Martin aussi tongue
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Phil
Admin
avatar

Nombre de messages : 82398
Age : 56
Localisation : 9 cube
Date d'inscription : 30/05/2007

MessageSujet: Re: Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?   Jeu 30 Aoû 2018, 13:48


LP
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
http://black-sabbath.1fr1.net
Phil
Admin
avatar

Nombre de messages : 82398
Age : 56
Localisation : 9 cube
Date d'inscription : 30/05/2007

MessageSujet: Re: Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?   Lun 03 Sep 2018, 20:25



Tracklisting
1-1 Mob Rules
1-2 Computer God
1-3 Children Of The Sea
1-4 Time Machine
1-5 War Pigs
1-6 I
1-7 Die Young
1-8 Guitar Solo
2-1 Black Sabbath
2-2 Master Of Insanity
2-3 After All (The Dead)
2-4 Iron Man
2-5 Heaven And Hell
2-6 Neon Knights
2-7 Paranoid
Sociétés, etc.

Recorded At – Orpheum Theatre

Notes
Boston Orpheum Theater, August 9th, 1992
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
http://black-sabbath.1fr1.net
Jean-Louis
Master Of Reality
avatar

Nombre de messages : 11112
Age : 66
Localisation : Bordeaux
Date d'inscription : 07/04/2010

MessageSujet: Re: Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?   Mar 04 Sep 2018, 11:35

J'ai 4 versions audio de ce show, ainsi qu'une étude détaillée réalisée en 2015 sur l'origine de chacun de ces boots. Si ça intéresse quelqu'un ?
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Phil
Admin
avatar

Nombre de messages : 82398
Age : 56
Localisation : 9 cube
Date d'inscription : 30/05/2007

MessageSujet: Re: Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?   Mar 04 Sep 2018, 15:12

Ca m'intéresse. Wink Wink Wink
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
http://black-sabbath.1fr1.net
Jean-Louis
Master Of Reality
avatar

Nombre de messages : 11112
Age : 66
Localisation : Bordeaux
Date d'inscription : 07/04/2010

MessageSujet: Re: Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?   Mar 04 Sep 2018, 17:16

Voilà voilà, bon mal de tête Laughing
Pour ma part, j'ai "As Darkness Hits", "Class Of 1992", "Definitive Boston" (FM et Pre-FM) et le "Leonid 1st Gen" ....

Black Sabbath 1992-08-09 Orpheum Theatre, Boston, US-MA - 104-18 - Pre-FM
'Class of 1992' (Langley-221 2CD silver bootleg)

ALTHOUGH SOME CDR-SOURCED FLAC VERSION OF THIS SHOW THAT MADE IT TO THE INTERNET YEARS AGO (FIRST UPLOADED ON ZOMB TRACKER BY HERTOGJAN, LATER RE-UPLOADED ON DIMEADOZEN BY HEAVYCRASH) CLAIMED TO BE SOURCED FROM 'CLASS OF 1992', IT TURNED OUT TO BE MISLABELLED. THAT VERSION WAS ACTUALLY A SLIGHTLY SUSPICIOUS COPY OF LEONID'S 1ST GEN TAPE TRANSFER. THE ACTUAL LANGLEY SILVER BOOTLEG 'CLASS OF 1992', ALTHOUGH CLEARLY SOURCED FROM LEONID'S VERSION AS WELL, SOUNDS DIFFERENT FROM BOTH BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN REMASTERED. I HAVE NEVER SEEN THE REAL 'CLASS OF 1992' ANYWHERE ON THE INTERNET BEFORE TODAY, SO HERE IT IS, AS REQUESTED.

CONTRAST CLAUSE:
'Leonid's 1st gen cassette' copy from pre-FM is already here:
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-edit.php?id=547517
'Definitive Boston 1992' (Zodiac 045 4CD silver bootleg) is here:
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=547522

The version I am uploading here now, in contrast, is ripped from ''Class of 1992' (Langley-221 2CD silver bootleg). See below for further details.

Many thanks again to my friend and fellow Dimer Jdeverill2 who ripped this directly from his 'Class of 1992' silver CDs, send it to me and allowed me to share it. The audio file set and fingerprints are exactly what he sent me - I didn't change them in any way, only added this info file, artwork downloaded from www.giginjapan.com , a few screenshots with comparison results of Exact Audio Copy's WAV Compare and my 'BS 1992 BOSTON F.A.Q.'. Although 'Class of 1992' sounds great, it is now actually pretty redundant, since 'Definitive Boston 1992' (Zodiac 045 4CD silver bootleg) is an exact copy of 'Class of 1992' except that 'Class of 1992' has a few flaws some of which have been fixed in 'Definitive Boston 1992'. For details, see my 'BS 1992 BOSTON F.A.Q.' and the EAC WAV Compare screenshots included in this upload.

Disc 1   (60:04mn)
1. E5150 (intro tape)
2. The Mob Rules
3. Computer God
4. Children of the Sea
5. Time Machine
6. War Pigs
7. I
8. Die Young
9. Guitar solo
10. Black Sabbath

Disc 2  (44:13)
1. Master of Insanity
2. After All (The Dead)
3. Vinnie Appice Drum Solo
4. Iron Man
5. Heaven and Hell
6. Neon Knights
7. Paranoid
8. Heaven and Hell (reprise)
9. Laguna Sunrise (outro tape, fades out)

*************************************************************

BLACK SABBATH 1992-08-09 BOSTON F.A.Q.

Preliminary remarks:

It's been years ago (probably it was around 2007) that I started researching the available recordings of Black Sabbath's show in Boston, MA, on 1992-08-09. I was still more or less a newbie in the world of Sabbath collectors - a fact that, regrettably, did not stop me from widely sharing my interpretations of some of the information I got, including a few more or less serious misconceptions. What's worse, some of the information already circulating about this show was false or misleading anyway.

By now, I hope to have grown ab bit wiser, and I will do my best to clarify some of the widespread confusion regarding the available recordings of this great concert and add some more or less new - and hopefully adequate - bits of information to what's already been established.

First of all, many thanks to Jjbomber for correcting some typos in an earlier version of this text; to Yeoman for sharing with me some of his amazing knowledge of pre-FM recordings in general, and for listening, comparing and giving his opinions on multiple versions of this show; and to Leonid for replying patiently and accurately to the questions I asked him during my research. Moreover, his transfer from 1st gen tape (sourced from a pre-FM rather than a SBR recording, as I will establish below) and its descendants remain - to my knowledge - the best-sounding complete versions available from this show, since he originally shared it on CDR in 2002. All available complete copies of the pre-FM source do in fact originate from Leonid's 1st gen transfer. (Some of the bootlegs sourced from his version may of course be considered to sound better than the original transfer due to remastering or fixes - I will go into more detail on this below, and I will say a few words about incomplete versions as well.)

In what follows, I will do my best to answer what I suspect might be frequently asked questions about the circulating recordings of this show.


F.A.Q.

1.) WHAT RECORDINGS FROM THIS SHOW EXIST, AND WHAT IS THEIR HISTORY?

- FM broadcasts: The concert was recorded, broadcasted and rebroadcasted by local radio station WBCN (104.1). It seems that up to the year 2000 or so, all widely circulating bootlegs and tapes from this show were sourced from FM broadcasts and more or less incomplete. Silver bootlegs (in varying quality) include 'As Darkness Hits' (Rocks 92039+92040), 'Black Bloody Black' (Kiss the Stone KTS171), 'The Dead, The Bad and the Ugly' (Blue Knight Records BKR09) and others.

- Pre-FM radio shows: Several Westwood One and Premiere Radio Networks pre-FM radio shows of this concert exist on CDR - see the nice, but still incomplete list on Tapio Keihänen's website http://www.dio.net/biography/discography/BlackSabbath_radioshow_CD.html . Sound quality (at least of some of them) is amazing. However, none of them (at least none that I've heard of) contains the complete concert. A few parts (drum solo, outro tape, most of the intro tape, parts of the guitar solo) seem to be missing from all of them. Moreover, at least on a couple of these radio shows the music is heavily edited, including artificial applause added at some points.

- Pre-FM > 1st gen tape: Luckily there is also a 1st gen tape copy of the complete pre-FM source. (I will explain below why I believe this is really from pre-FM, not SBD.) The following quote from one of its uploaders states it accurately:
"This show was recorded by local radiostation WBCN 104.1. An employee at the station gave a casette copy of the show to sabbath collector Leonid M. who transferred it to digital and created this flac set." (Quoted from http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7497 )
In March 2002, Sabbath collector Leonid had written a message to a Black Sabbath email list that included many renowned collectors, announcing the existence of - and his willingness to share - his transfer of those 1st gen cassettes sourced from pre-FM. (They still called it 'SBD' back then, an issue which I will clarify below.) Thus, the recording started to circulate. In 2005, it was uploaded on The Traders' Den by Brimstone http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7497 , then made its way to other places on the internet. It was also used for creating a few fan-produced and commercial bootlegs respectively (see below).


2.) IS IT TRUE THAT THERE IS ALSO A VIDEO OF THIS SHOW?

I was told that an AUD video exists, but I don't know if that's true. If you know anything about it, please share your knowledge. If you have the video, please share the video.


3.) WHAT KIND OF SOURCE IS THIS ANYWAY - SBD OR PRE-FM?

Really good question IMHO - I struggled with it for a long time myself.

The lineage given in the original upload of this version on http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7497  suggested that it originated from a SBD source. Rob Dwyer's www.sabbathlive.com (now long gone), as well as Leonid himself - in his message to the Sabbath email list in 2002 where he offered the distribution of his 1st gen tape transfer on CDR - have also usually referred to it as a SBD recording. This seemed to make sense, given the following piece of information that was included in Leonid's email as well:
"This source has never been broadcasted so it's unlikely you can find it on any bootleg. (During the concert there were couple or more of recordings made. The one that was made within the audience was broadcasted, not the soundboard one)."

If that were true, it would seem to suggest that the cassettes that were given to Leonid by an employee of the radio station had NOT been taken from the pre-FM recording - which was, according to Leonid's email, "made within the audience", and was used for the diverse FM broadcasts -, but from another recording (taken from the SBD). Why exactly two such recordings should have been made in the first place, was always a mystery to me. Anyway, after having listened closely to multiple versions of this show, I am now sure that one and the same recording of this show was the original source of ALL circulating versions - FM broadcasts, pre-FM radio shows, AND Leonid's cassettes. Apart from Leonid's version, I compared the 'Class of 1992' and 'Definitive Boston 1992' silver bootlegs, several FM captures and Pre-FM radio shows. The pre-FM radio shows are edited, and in the FM versions we here Metal Mike's DJ talk which is absent from Leonid's cassettes and its descendants (including 'Class of 1992' and 'Definitive Boston 1992'), but I did NOT find ANY differences apart from those caused by
- mixing, EQ, edits and other modifications typical for radio shows and broadcasts,
- limitations of analogue cassettes (affecting Leonid's version and its descendants as well as all FM broadcast > cassette versions)
- FM statics, compression and other limitations of broadcast recordings.

What I did find, however, were a lot of identical noises from the audience, indicating that the original source of all available recordings must have been the same. Listen, for example, to the whistles from Ronnie's announcement of 'War Pigs' to the beginning of the song. I am quite well-experienced in distinguishing multiple recordings of a show. I admit there are (very few) cases (especially when two AUD tapers with similar equipment were located right next to each other) where it is hard to say if what we hear are two different sources, or rather two different copies of the same source. However, IMHO the Boston 1992 recording is really an easy case to decide. Especially given Leonid's claim that one recording was "made within the audience" and the other one was taken from the SBD, we should expect a huge lot of obvious differences here. However, actually there are NO such differences between any versions of Boston 1992 I have heard. Even if it were true that two recordings were taken at this show, one of them definitely has never been circulating. (IF YOU BELIEVE YOU DO HAVE A DIFFERENT SOURCE, PLEASE PM ME OR WRITE A COMMENT.)

I CONCLUDE THAT THE CORRECT LINEAGE FOR LEONID'S VERSION IS IN FACT "PRE-FM RECORDING > 1ST GEN CASSETTE" RATHER THAN "SBD RECORDING > 1ST GEN CASSETTE". Leonid himself has recently acknowledged this in a comment to http://pre-fm-bootlegs.blogspot.de/2014/06/black-sabbath-definitive-boston-1992.html  where he told how he had received this recording and went on: "Then noticed that the sound was way different [from the FM version]. So it turned out that he [the radio DJ] gave me the pre-FM version."


2.) IS 'CLASS OF 1992' (OR ANY OTHER AVAILABLE BOOTLEG OF THIS SHOW) REALLY SOURCED FROM THE ORIGINAL DAT MASTER, AS ROB DWYER ONCE SUGGESTED?

IMHO, CERTAINLY NOT!

Rob Dwyer did indeed claim that the 'Class of 1992' (Langley-221) 2CD bootleg was directly sourced from the DAT master. Apparently, the main reason for this believe was the fact that 'Class of 1992' sounded significantly better to him than Leonid's 1st gen version (or 'Masters of Boston', a fan-produced bootleg sourced from Leonid's version). What Leonid tells us instead - and I believe this is indeed what truly happened - is that Langley took Leonid's 1st gen version, remastered it (the result of which was the more 'crisp' sound of 'Class of 1992' that Rob Dwyer referred to), pressed it on silver discs and sold it under the title 'Class of 1992' (Langley-221). IMHO, 'Class of 1992' sounds exactly like a remastered (EQed and slightly less dynamic - DR10 for 'Class of 1992' vs DR11 for Leonid's version), but still obvious, copy of Leonid's 1st gen version, plus it has almost exactly the same track-splitting and overall duration as Leonid's version (104:18 min and 104:19 min respectively).

What about other bootlegs sourced from the pre-FM recording? According to Exact Audio Copy's 'WAV Compare', the pre-FM portion of the 'Definitive Boston 1992' (Zodiac 045) 4CD silver bootleg is mostly an exact copy of 'Class of 1992', except for small differences in a few spots because some clicks and other little flaws present in 'Class of 1992' obviously have been fixed in 'Definitive Boston 1992'. 'WAV Compare' also confirms that the CDR bootleg 'Masters of Boston' is mostly identical to Leonid's version. Some small differences are there in a few specific spots - more about this below.

EVEN IF THE ORIGINAL PRE-FM MASTER (BE IT ON DAT OR WHATEVER) STILL EXISTS (WE SIMPLY DON'T KNOW), IT IS NOT CIRCULATING.


3.) HAS THE 'CLASS OF 1992' LANGLEY BOOTLEG EVER BEEN ON DIME?

ACTUALLY IT HASN'T! Some of you will probably be surprised now because on 25 May 2010, Dimeadozen user Heavycrash did upload a torrent with the title "Black Sabbath 1992-08-09 Orpheum Theater, Boston, MA 'Class Of '92' Version *BY REQUEST*". Back then, I just believed what the title suggested and didn't really think about the upload description, which mentioned that the original uploader had been HertogJan on Zomb tracker. Only recently I finally searched Zomb and found the original upload http://zombtracker.the-zomb.com/details.php?id=30663 . Curiously, the name 'Class of 1992' is not even mentioned anywhere in its title or description! Instead, it even (wrongly) claims to be from an FM source, and the lineage reads: "Trade CD-R (unknown gen) -> WAV (EAC) -> FLAC level 5". Anyway, as I said, in 2010 I simply believed that Heavycrash's upload was really a CD-rip of 'Class of 1992', so I did a lot of comparing and commenting which now turns out to be either misleading or obsolete since the alleged 'Class of 1992' wasn't 'Class of 1992' at all. (For more details about the differences between HertogJan's version and 'Class of 1992', see below.)


4.) WHICH IS THE BEST-SOUNDING VERSION OF THIS SHOW? or: WHICH ARE THE PROS AND CONS OF THE AVAILABLE VERSIONS?

This is, of course, mainly a matter of taste. I can only give you some more detailed information and some of my personal opinions in order to help you make up your own mind:

Bootlegs sourced from captures of FM broadcasts of this show (like 'As Darkness Hits', 'Black Bloody Black' and 'The Dead, The Bad And The Ugly') have usually included only parts of the show, and sound qualities vary. I am aware of only 2 FM versions that contain the complete show: Dimeadozen user Glasnostrd19's master tape (110:15 min), uploaded on 26 November 2009, and the FM portion (107:51 min) of 'Definitive Boston 1992' (Zodiac 045 4CD silver bootleg). A very short listen seems to suggest that 'Definitive Boston 1992' sounds better than Glasnostrd19's master, but that's probably an unfair comparison, since the 'Definitive Boston 1992' version has likely been more or less heavily remastered, while Glasnostrd19's master sounds pretty raw to me (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Generally, FM versions of this show are said to sound inferior compared to pre-FM versions due to the general limitations of FM recordings (FM statics, compression etc.), but again, there are huge differences in sound even between multiple FM versions. I feel, for example, that the FM portion of 'Definitive Boston 1992' has the keyboards a bit lower in the mix (or maybe camouflaged by clever EQing?) than Glasnostrd19's master and the pre-FM versions - which is a good thing IMHO, since the keyboards are really loud in most copies of this show.

Like I already said, most collectors agree that the pre-FM versions of this show are superior over FM versions. As for sound quality alone, some or another of the aforementioned Westwood One or Premiere Radio Networks pre-FM radio shows is probably the best you can get. However, and now I quote myself from above, "none of them (at least none that I've heard of) contains the complete concert. A few parts (drum solo, outro tape, most of the intro tape, parts of the guitar solo) seem to be missing from all of them. Moreover, at least on a couple of these radio shows the music is heavily edited, including artificial applause added at some points."

Leonid's pre-FM 1st gen tape version, in contrast, suffers from the usual limitations of analogue cassette tapes. However, Leonid's version and its several copies are the only available complete pre-FM versions of this show. That's why I will discuss them more thoroughly below:

- Leonid's 1st gen tape transfer: the original. By now, all other available complete pre-FM versions are copies of this transfer. As far as I understood, Leonid did not use any EQ or otherwise tempered with it, but only normalized it (and possibly balanced the channels, I don't know). A great recording from the outset, although it does have its little flaws (which were reproduced by most, but not all, of its descendants anyway), like the little clicks at min 0:14, 0:49 and 0:50 of 'E5150', min 1:19 of 'War Pigs' and the drop-out at min 0:04 of 'The Mob Rules' (which, according to Leonid, has probably been caused by some PA playback problem at the show, rather than tape or recording problems). Anyway, if you dislike or distrust the remastering work done for 'Class of 1992' and other releases, and/or you simply want something as true as possible to the original sound of Leonid's tapes, then this is the version to get.

- 'Masters of Boston' (2CDR): Exact Audio Copy's 'WAV Compare' confirms that the fan-produced CDR bootleg 'Masters of Boston' is mostly identical to Leonid's version. Anyway, some differences are there, at a few specific spots: the aforementioned clicks from Leonid's version (at min 0:14, 0:49 and 0:50 of 'E5150' and min 1:19 of 'War Pigs') have apparently been removed - manually and rather carefully, without using any automatic de-noising/de-clicking, which is great, because the rest of the recording has not at all been affected by these little changes. However, 'Masters of Boston' does have a click that is not present in Leonid's original version: between disc 1 track 08 ('I', the last track of disc 1 of 'Masters of Boston') and disc 2 track 09 ('Die Young'). When I listen with good headphones on high volume, I believe I can also hear another little click that cannot be heard on Leonid's version: at the very end of disc 2 of 'Masters of Boston' (the only other spot where 'WAV Compare' finds a difference between Leonid's version and 'Masters of Boston'). The drop-out at min 0:04 of 'The Mob Rules' is there, identical in both versions.
If 'Masters of Boston' did not have the aforementioned additional 2 clicks, I would have recommended it to those people who don't want a remastered version, but would like to get rid of the 4 clicks present in Leonid's version. However, given that 'Masters of Boston' has 4 clicks removed, but 2 clicks added, and the drop-out left untouched, I'd rather recommend that you take Leonid's original version and manually remove the 4 clicks and the drop-out alike.

- HertogJan's version (2CDR): this was first shared on http://zombtracker.the-zomb.com/details.php?id=30663 . As I already mentioned above, it got falsely labelled 'Class of 1992' when it was brought to Dime. Thus, many of you who believe to own a rip of 'Class of 1992' do in fact have HertogJan's version. Exact Audio Copy's 'WAV Compare' tells me that the first 10 tracks (which is disc 1, containing about 60 min) of HertogJan's version are really identical to Leonid's version, except for 1764 samples missing from HertogJan's version at the end of the first 9 tracks. I cannot hear any difference at those spots, but the fact that those samples have been removed remains suspicious. Leonid's version does not have any sector boundary errors, gaps or clicks between tracks, so it is unclear what exactly has been removed in HertogJan's version. Moreover, according to 'WAV Compare', the remaining 44 min (disc 2) of HertogJan's version differ from Leonid's completely. Again, I don't hear the difference at all, but the files do look a bit different in my WAV editor too, though the overall volume level is similar. I have no idea what has been done here since my ears don't tell me. After all, I find HertogJan's version really suspicious. Since it is a digitally changed, but soundwise apparently identical copy of Leonid's version, it is really not needed, and I suggest to get rid of it.
ANYWAY, IF YOU HAVE SOME VERSION OF THIS SHOW THAT CLAIMS TO BE 'CLASS OF 1992', HOW TO FIND OUT IF IT REALLY IS WHAT IT CLAIMS TO BE?
First option: if the version in question includes an info text file, then read it. If it says anything like "Thanks to HertogJan", "SOURCE: FM broadcast" and/or "Trade CD-R (unknown gen)", then it's clear that what you have is NOT 'Class of 1992'. If you do not have an info file, it's a bit trickier: HertogJan's version does sound different from 'Class of 1992', but running time and track-splitting are almost identical.
Second option: use your ears. First make sure to remove ReplayGain tags (if there are any) from any of your versions, because this way it will be easier to notice different volume levels. Now, when you listen, for example, to the beginning of 'The Mob Rules', HertogJan's versions sounds EXACTLY the same as Leonid's, while 'Class of 1992' sounds a bit louder and, to use Rob Dwyer's expression, 'crispier'.
Third option: use 'Exact Audio Copy'. Pick any track from disc 1 (which contains about 60 min) of your alleged 'Class of 1992', decode it to WAV, and use Exact Audio Copy's 'WAV Compare' function (in 'Tools') to compare it to the same track (which must of course also be decoded to WAV first) from Leonid's 1st gen version. (It is really important to NOT use a track from disc 2, because, as I mentioned above, 'WAV Compare' finds that disc 2 of HertogJan's version does differ from Leonid's completely, even though I cannot HEAR the difference.) If 'WAV compare' finds only one, or very few, very little differences, you probably have HertogJan's version. If 'WAV compare' finds instead that the tracks you compared differ all the way through, you have a good chance to own a copy or rip of 'Class of 1992' (no guarantee though, of course).

- 'Class of 1992' (Langley-221 2CD silver bootleg): this is a remastered copy of Leonid's version. Again, due to EQing and some compression, this sounds 'crispier' than Leonid's version. I strongly agree with Leonid that it was a really bad move of those bootleggers to take his version, use it for producing their commercial bootleg and profit from it without paying him anything. Anyway, I actually like the sound of this bootleg, but it also introduces a few flaws. I didn't listen closely from beginning to end, so there's possibly more, but I did notice little clicks between track 06 and 07 of disc 1, track 02 and 03 of disc 2 and track 03 and 04 of the same disc (none of which is present in Leonid's version). I also feel that the bootleggers were really lazy when they worked on this, since they didn't even take the time to fix the little flaws of Leonid's version - check out the clicks at min 0:14, 0:49 and 0:50 of 'E5150', min 1:19 of 'War Pigs' and the drop-out at min 0:04 of 'The Mob Rules', which are present in Leonid's version and 'Class of 1992' alike.

- 'Definitive Boston 1992' (Zodiac 045 4CD silver bootleg): this has been a really nice surprise to me. It includes both a complete FM (see above) and a complete pre-FM (sourced from 1st gen) version. 'WAV Compare' shows that the pre-FM portion is mostly an exact copy of 'Class of 1992', except for small differences in a few spots because some clicks and other little flaws present in 'Class of 1992' obviously have been fixed in 'Definitive Boston 1992' - which is nice! The aforementioned clicks introduced in 'Class of 1992' are not present in 'Definitive Boston 1992', and even the clicks at min 0:49 and 0:50 of 'E5150' and the drop-out at min 0:04 of 'The Mob Rules' I noticed in Leonid's version (and accordingly in most of its copies, including 'Class of 1992') have finally been removed. (Regrettably, the bootleggers apparently overlooked the clicks from Leonid's version at min 0:14 of 'E5150' and min 1:19 of 'War Pigs' - both are still there.) These fixes have obviously been carried out manually and carefully, so 'Definitive Boston 1992' is exactly identical to 'Class of 1992' except in those little spots where the fixes occur. Again, I strongly disapprove people (including bootleggers) who use other people's work to make profit (although I am aware that's what capitalism is all about). However, I admit that soundwise 'Definitive Boston 1992' is momentarily my favourite complete version, having all the advantages of 'Class of 1992', while repairing the most notable flaws of 'Class of 1992' and even some of Leonid's version.

- Dujanovasionist's remaster of 'Definitive Boston 1992': I first learned about this on Dujanovasionist's blog http://pre-fm-bootlegs.blogspot.de/2014/06/black-sabbath-definitive-boston-1992.html . The concept of remastering a remaster another time is not my favourite one, even though it possibly makes sense in a few cases (e.g. when the raw original is lost and the only available version is a bad remaster, so one might try to fix the flaws caused by the first remastering process as far as possible). As I explained above, 'Class of 1992', which is a remaster of Leonid's version, sounds rather nice to my ears, and 'Definitive Boston 1992' is a (partly) fixed (and otherwise identical) copy of 'Class of 1992', so IMHO there was no necessity to do any more remastering work on it. What's worse, Dujanovasionist's remaster has a dynamic range value of only DR7, as opposed to DR10 (for both 'Definitive Boston 1992' and 'Class of 1992') and DR11 (for Leonid's 1st gen version), indicating that Dujanovasionist has used a high amount of compression for his remaster (although he does not at all mention it in his description of what he did). A quick listen seems to suggest that the remaster does sound different, but not extremely different, from 'Definitive Boston 1992' - maybe the mix appears very slightly more balanced now, but I am not even sure about that (and the clicks from Leonid's version at min 0:14 of 'E5150' and min 1:19 of 'War Pigs' are still there).
Again, make up your own mind. A higher dynamic range usually needs some time of listening, preferably at high volume on a good stereo, to be fully appreciated, while highly compressed audio (like Dujanovasionist's remaster) tends to sound more impressive when you listen only shortly, at lower volume and on cheap equipment. Thus, you should listen for a while to really grasp the differences.

(WRITTEN AND SHARED BY LINDA ON 2015-11-30.)
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Phil
Admin
avatar

Nombre de messages : 82398
Age : 56
Localisation : 9 cube
Date d'inscription : 30/05/2007

MessageSujet: Re: Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?   Jeu 18 Oct 2018, 18:18


LP
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
http://black-sabbath.1fr1.net
Phil
Admin
avatar

Nombre de messages : 82398
Age : 56
Localisation : 9 cube
Date d'inscription : 30/05/2007

MessageSujet: Re: Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?   Ven 19 Oct 2018, 15:35

Revenir en haut Aller en bas
http://black-sabbath.1fr1.net
Contenu sponsorisé




MessageSujet: Re: Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?   

Revenir en haut Aller en bas
 
Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?
Revenir en haut 
Page 16 sur 16Aller à la page : Précédent  1 ... 9 ... 14, 15, 16
 Sujets similaires
-
» Quel album de Black Sabbath écoutez- vous actuellement ?
» Combien de fois écoutez vous l'album de Mika par jour??
» Black Sabbath
» Black Sabbath : Black Sabbath (1970)
» Comment écoutez-vous la musique ?

Permission de ce forum:Vous ne pouvez pas répondre aux sujets dans ce forum
Black Sabbath :: Black Sabbath :: Black Sabbath-
Sauter vers:  
Les forums partenaires